This post is totally tl;dr

[dragojustine]

kay, so, I went to Wincon and I had the best time of my entire life. For serious, bar absolutley nothing. And I came out of Wincon with thousands and thousands of meta thinky thoughts and plot bunnies, and dozens of people who were so cool to meet who I really really want to meet again, and I discussed things with people that I just don't discuss with Real Life Non Fandom people, and it was intelligent and interesting and engaging and a complete and total relief in that "things that I find worth devoting headspace to are being validated rather than mocked, and my porn habits disgust no one" sort of way. Which? WINS.

And it's funny, because I had a choice between going to Wincon last weekend or going to that actual big commercial Supernatural convention next weekend, with Nathan Filion and Jared Padalecki and other cool people and... I'm really glad I made the choice I did. Because as cool as it would be to just stand next to Jared (and seriously, there are not enough men that tall in the world) what I really really NEED right now in my life are friends, not celebrity autographs. And I rarely actually make friends, in that, while I am fine at a little bit of chit-chat about the weather or whatever, I almost never feel like I have crossed that nebulous line from "awkward performance of social small talk ritual" to "really enjoying someone's company and wanting to be their friend" and that was happening all over the damn place at Wincon and it makes me happy. Happy in a way that might somewhat indicate my social patheticness and need for validation at this particular moment in my life, but whatever because it was FUN! Also? This will sound weird and melodramatic but there was this lovely fresh "out of the closet" sort of breeze about it, in that I devote TONS of headspace to things that I basically admit to nobody, so being friends with fangirls? Is a huge relief of that particular little neurosis.


I showed up Friday, watched the tail end of episode 3x02. I missed watching this show with someone else SO MUCH since I left Constance. Anyway, there was mingling and mixing. iamtheenemy, miriad, eboniorchid, and phouka_h were all really nice to me. I ran up to femmenerd and was awkward enough to freak her out a bit, which I felt bad about.

Then there was dinner, with discussion of NCIS with miriad(haven't fangirled on that in ages!), and stops at the Roadhouse, and storytime with amara_m, wanderingray, and others. And really really hot porn readings, which included me willingly listening to wingfic, and finding it hot. Though I am more still in "despite the wings" territory than "because of the wings," I will definetely read more of that story. Also, eboniorchid (whose fic I had not read before due to flocked-ness) has the hottest porn-voice in creation and apparently writes evil!Sam fic of exactly the type I like. Also, the best crack story in the whole world is Green and Gamboge. It just is.

And then! Karaoke and vidshow. And I don't generally like karaoke but HOW FUN was that? I have... this music craving now, which is odd for me since I usually barely care about music at all. I finally got to meet mona1347 and poisontaster, which were moments of massive excitement for me though we did not really talk. And I sang, though not alone, and I did plenty of rocking out at the table if not up front. And there was Highway to Hell! And I Will Survive! And, at the very end, there was this WILD rendition of Wayward Son, and I have no words for how awesome it is to be with other fangirls who understand my thing for that song.

Saturday I didn't do as much hanging-out, as the introversion kicked in and I was comfier just standing around eavesdropping for most of the day, and there was minor drama at home so I did not get to go back after the dinner for night-on-the-towning. The big exception was this massive huge meta convo with unperfectwolf who is a... high energy person, enough that I absolutly adore her but cannot keep up for longer than a few minutes. The meta ranged all over the damn place (with some particularly interesting stops in the character of different fandoms and in the scary wackiness that is HP fandom, but there was tons of other stuff I'm forgetting).

Sunday morning was awesome, because I brought five things to the clothing swap and came back with four, and because I got to watch the Handicrafts Brigade do really cool things like finger-loop braidy stuff and finger-weaving and knitting fingerless cloves and I'm just fascinated by that. And I had awesome conversations with ryuutchi, desertport, thepurpleswitch, femmenerd(who apparently isn't freaked out by me after all, yaay) and... others? I got my picture taken with little Doll!John, and met derryderrydown. I know I stopped and fangirled at littlewings04 too, for her awesome panel and awesomer voice. Then I drove marinarusalka to the train station and we gabbled about travel, which is my favorite subject in the world to gabble about, even ahead of fangirling. Yaay!



Panels:

Minor characters: I believe it was marinarusalka who said funny things about how awesome Ellen was (cause anyone who makes their living off psychotically violent men who never pay their bills? Awesome). Anyway, there was discussion of Ellen, who I think is a fundamentally good character because she is the first person who we have seen be a part of the hunting world without actually being a hunter, knowing what's out there and yet having no desire for psychotic revenge. Also much discussion of Henrickson, who I think is awesome because his character brings up all sorts of crazy issues of perspective. He is perfectly familiar from every cop drama and procedural you've ever seen, and that very familiarity makes it impossible not to see the Winchesters, just a little, through his eyes, with all those issues of good-guys-bad-guys. He is an enemy who is fundamentally just doing his job (even if he is a bit of a mysogynistic asshole). Somebody (who?) pointed out the ways that Henrickson mirrors Dean as a character (as well as just letting us see him from the outside)-they have similar drives for justice, for action against what they see as evil, which make it very easy to convince yourself that this could be Dean in another life. Also, their sense of snark is identical, so that listening to that phone conversation in Nighshifter is practically Dean talking to himself.

Then! The writing erotica panel, which is what finally convinced me that the whole "hotel full of women who like porn" thing was actually not going to be awkward at all. They spent 20 minutes on "the SPN hanky code" which is a hilarious one-liner of a joke but went on maybe too long. Except the rest was utterly hilarious, in a god-my-cheeks-hurt-and-I-can't-breathe kind of way. Also, the mythology panel, which I really really really wish had gone on about as twice as long as it did. There were a thousand things I wish I could have heard more about (What is the issue with Hookman, anyway?). I came out of those two panels pretty much with a massive massive brain-crush on starkeymonster.

The Various Female Stuff panel was great. Largely because, as I mentioned in an earlier Wincon post, femmenerd is one of the most enjoyable and insightful and articulate people on the planet and I want to crawl into her brain and live there. There was good stuff about this fandom's welcome for OFCs, cause of the very, you know, structure of the show. Mostly there was talk about genderswap (and thepurpleswitch was right, but I don't think that nomenclature is changing any time soon, eh?) which gave me meta. And then came Winchester Ethics, where littlewings04 proved quite conclusively that she kicks ass and takes names, if only through creative swearing, balls-to-the-wall attitude, firearms training, and a voice that sounds EXACTLY like Deadwood's Calamity Jane. I want to be her disciple now, a little bit. That started out with how John's Marine background influenced the Winchesters, which was good because it was a basic argument everyone can agree on (because, duh?) and yet that isn't much discussed, so someone with a little background can shed a lot of light. And then it turned into "John Winchester's Parenting Skills: Y/N?" which other people seemed to object to, but which, frankly, I am all over. That gave me meta too. *sigh*



My thinky-thoughts, let me show you them:

Prompted by the het, gen, Mary Sue panel and conversation afterwards:
So, genderswap fic can be very good or very bad. Inevitably, it will involve Dean waking up with girlie bits and suddenly deciding that he needs to buy miniskirts and low cut tops and grow his hair out, no? And this is very very very annoying when the author seems to assume that those things are the necessary result of suddenly having girlie bits. But you know what? I think Dean actually would respond at least a little like that. Because, whether you think Dean is a chauvanist or not, I think we can all agree that he has some very ingrained ideas about gender roles, and I think if he woke up with girlie bits he would feel the need to put on a lot of that performance, at least in non-hunting situations. Hell, he flaunts it as a guy- he'll want to flaunt it as a girl, and he would do so in the ways that he has been conditioned to think girls should flaunt it, I think. Of course, all bets are off once we're in a practical and non-social sort of situation, on the hunt instead of at the bar, but still. It's just that many authors seem to think that a miniskirt is something of an automatic response to girlie bits, instead of a choice that the character would make, for reasons.

Anyway, I now want my Jo-wakes-up-with-boy-bits fic. Because... I think her response, as a character, could be very interesting. What if her first response is actually "thank god"? Because she is tired of not being taken seriously, tired of being the small cute blond and the ways that she feels that frustrate her on the hunt, tired of feeling like she may not be assertive enough or agressive enough to make it in her environment. And somehow, it seems like this might fix all that. Only to discover... that it doesn't fix anything, because she is still fundamentally the same person, and therefore is not actually more assertive or agressive and her performance of such is just fake, and difficult. And she is still short and slight and blond and pretty, and as a guy that comes with its own whole set of "not being taken seriously" issues, especially with all the little gestures and habits that code her as female and that are harder to get rid of than she anticipated. And the sex is problematic. And so she turns out hating it after all. That has the potential to be an interesting story, no? With problematic awkward porn and lots of different flavors of banter. And maybe it's a little biographical of me... because yeah, it's pretty much always in the back of my mind that "being a guy would just fix so much of this shit" but I don't actually believe that for a moment.
*goes to write "I will not use Jo as a self-insertion" 100 times on the blackboard*

Prompted by the Ethics panel:
My John obsession is recent (What? I'm late on the draw) but John really is the pivot point for every different interpretation of the characters, every different vision of their childhood, every close-to-the-source AU... it all centers on John, because he is a character with a lot of room for interpretation in one direction or the other, and even the smallest change in the way you conceptualize John sends ripples through everything we know about the entire story and both our boys. So... I am fascinated. I have had snatches floating around, one about how John feels the need to choose between happiness and safety for his boys, and the other about him seeing how frightened both boys can be and the different ways they react to fear and how he feels, as a parent, inflicting that on them. And of course, both of those things are ALL ABOUT John's experience in Nam, really. And especially now, after the panel, I have these visions of "# different ways" style fic thing about the entire range that John's parenting could have covered- from downright abusive to just this side of normal but with guns. Because we see this whole range in fic, and cannon won't really pin it down for us, and it matters.

Prompted by conversation with thepurpleswitch:
thepurpleswitch was awesome because he is apparently into bandom but let me just dump all my Issues with RPS and was able to discuss them rationally with me in productive ways from a different perspective, which I normally can't do with anybody. So, Yaay! But these are my Issues with RPS: that, fundamentally, the difference is whether there are Real People who may be harmed by fanfic. And even if we do not see immediately how these things will harm real people, that potential remains (and not just the actor- wives, parents, children...). And the fact that, at least in popslash and bandslash, the justificiation given for this has to do with the way that band members package themselves as celebrities, show off carefully prepared personalities, make themselves basically fictional characters for consumption. And I get why that changes things, except that the argument is still, basically, that we are doing something sexual, to a real person, without their consent, based on the argument that "they were asking for it." So... um... do I need to spell out what's bad about that line of argument?

But in any case, I got this rec for this great story. It's titled A Work of Tragicomedy & An Excercise in PoMo Bullshit, and if that right there doesn't convince me to read something, nothing will. Anyway, it was recc'd to me as "a photo of J2 kissing gets out to the tablods so they have to do this big fake pretend-to-be-gay-boyfriends thing," and you know how sometimes you read a summary and create a totally different fic in your head? Yeah. The fic I linked is damn fun, but I really really now want a fic where Jared and Jensen do this one really drunk "huh, I wonder what this would feel like" sort of kiss experiment, and really don't like it, but some intrepid stalker snapped a photo on their cell phone, and it turns into this whole big performance. And then, cause there's gotta be porn, you have the boys procuring girls for one another. And watching. And possibly instructing. Because there is not enough voyeurism in fanfic, people. This idea amuses be because of my PoMo Bullshit tenencies, and because I think it would be one of those amusingly extreme breaks from form which sometimes I like simply for its own sake. And someone who is familiar with the worlds of RPS and crazy tabloids could totally give this fic a snarky "poke fun at those creeps who are so obsessed with a celebrities sex life" tilt while remaining funny and not nasty, no? Except not me, I couldn't pull that off. *sigh*

Just a random thought:
You know, I came into this fandom with not a lot of squicks- I am a slasher by preference and I accepted a certain liking for BDSM stuff and dub-con and darkfic a long time ago. Hell, I downloaded the pilot of supernatural at least in part because of conversations I was having about the recent sort of... spate of incest in fandom, so I was pre-unsquicked on that. Still, I had lines, you know? Bestiality, intergenerational stuff, Mpreg (you freaky mpreg people!), Wingifc (cause...???). I just realized that SPN has systematically broke me down so that I can pretty definitively say there is NOTHING that I have not read. I have read bestiality- the Yakfucking stories- even if no one would mistake those for porn. I have read mpreg- poisontaster's utterly fabulous The Killing Moon, which hits all my Handmaid's Tale/80s feminist SF about govermental control of individuals as breeding machines buttons (I used to gobble that shit up, back when my political views were all mushy and still forming) but which is nevertheless mpreg and I liked it. I have read wingfic- the aforementioned amara_m stuff which I shall continue to read when I get the chance. I have read John/Dean- teand's incredible heartbreaking horrible truthful story Familiar Admonishments. So now... yes. After SPN, there is literally nothing I will not read. And I find myself with thoughts, about whether this is a good thing or a bad thing- our squick, our sense of shame, serves a valuable societal purpose, doesn't it? And while many of those fics I listed are not porn, should we still worry about desensitization? This is my religious upbringing shoving its unwanted head through the cracks in my psyche. I have always thought that it is always- ALWAYS- better to expose yourself to good writing, good art, good fiction, no matter how ugly or hurtful or just plain icky the subject matter, because facing these things and seeing the way that writers or artists or our culture treats them is important. Because being able to react to them in considered intellectual ways instead of with blind emotion is important. Because learning whatever we can from them, and absorbing whatever they can say to us about characters, stories, human condition, whatever- that's important too. And yes, you should all be reading that Familiar Admonishments story for these very reasons. But is there a point where it goes too far? Is there a point where, for example, a non-con story (even if it isn't treated as just porn, even if it tries to say realistic and true and interesting things about the characters) maybe just ought to squick us to the point we don't read it? I do not know.


Plot idea I've had forever:
I adored the character of Jake. That one scene in AHBL1, when he self consciously takes on, along with Sam, the role of protector for all the kids in the town? That was sexy, and striking, because he's the first person we've seen who becomes the sort of hero-protector figure that Dean is. And I immediately spun out this huge long AHBL AU where Jake and Sam try to take care of the PsyKids and escape the town with them, fighting all the way out. And maybe Sam starts to lean on Jake the way he used to lean on Dean, a little, because it's such a relief to have support in that role of protector? And maybe it's slashy? And then they watch as they collect more PsyKids but one by one all the kids turn crazy on them. And Jake, who is so much less hardened to this than Sam, is torn apart by his need to systematically put down one of these people after another, just because they were driven insane by their dreams, and the same dreams batter at him and it's only by taking comfort with Sam that he can possibly hold them off? And then either Jake finally breaks and that fucks Sam up good, or Jake and Sam both make it out and back to Dean, where Dean promptly sees the way Sam leans on Jake now, sees that someone else has kept Sam safe when he couldn't even find Sam, and has Issues. Possibly Issues that include figuring out that Sam and Jake are sleeping together and... yeah? Anyway, I had this whole character of Jake built up in my head, the only characer we see on the show who finds out about the hunters world and is determined to save people and becomes part of it without going batshit psycho for revenge. And he could have a backstory of his own that the demon would use to pry at him but he would be fundamentally strong and together, and it would be really interesting either to watch him break or not watch him break... or watch him break only after they meet back up with Dean and he suddenly loses the support of Sam, maybe?

Anyway. I had this whole thing spun out in my head in the space of one commercial break and then Jake had to go psycho with no satisfying buildup or character arc at all and I was PISSED. And I am more attached to this story than any other story idea I've ever had, except that... well, two reasons. One is that I am a Clueless Honky and SPN has Race Issues and I am a little... afraid of throwing myself in that shark pool. But that alone wouldn't keep me from writing it, because that just means I need a beta who is sensitive to those issues and will pet me and reassure me and bitchslap me when I fuck up, right? Because I would like to think that I would not fuck up too bad, and can be graceful about apologizing even if I do fuck up. But the other reason I won't write it is that I just don't think I can write Jake without a way better idea of his experience in the Afghanistan, but I come from an utterly non-military background and flounder and flail with everything related to the armed forces. So... this fic is too intimidating for me.



So, um, one of the raffle prizes was a copy of the script for Heart.

The fantastically hot sex scene in Heart? With the kissing and then the biting and the biting and then the more biting? The biting was unscripted. Yup, apparently that little bit of hormone-exploding hotness was just all, you know, adlibbed. By Jared. And... Um. Okay, the biting was really really hot. The sex scene was phenomenally hot pretty much single handedly because of the biting. And here's the thing? Scripted biting? Plenty hot. Unscripted biting, for some reason, just short circuits my brain. I am massively overusing italics, that's what the unscripted biting does to me. I walked around for, like, four straight hours on Saturday unable to think about anything but the spontaneous biting. GAH. Short-circuited brain. Preoccupation and happy dreams and all. Christ, for some reason the unscripted biting just DOES THINGS to me.


So in short, I had a BLAST. And in the week since Wincon I have been applying for (and not being contacted for, or turned down for) jobs at a fairly steady rate, and have just been devouring lj- back archives of fics and recs and meta from all these people I met at the con and I've been leaving comments like whoah which I never used to do and it's been so much fun I haven't even written anything of my own, either journal-wise or fic wise.

Except that I did drabble (prompt: any X-over, "You've just been out-geeked!"). Is it weird that my first fic ever posted online is such a random drabble? It just BIT me, and now there's this huge X-over fic idea in my head. And of course, I proofread poorly, so now the only peice of my writing that exists on the internet contains Offenses Against Verb Tense the like of which people rant about in badfic conversations. It's fun, hitting "post" and then promptly feeling like Exhibit A in The Need for Betas, isn't it?

Episode reactions to come, as well as other stuff. Maybe, at some point, I will actually write fic? I want to, now.

Comments

[amara-m.livejournal.com]

Dude...first, I think it is far, far too early on a Saturday morning to be thinking of Jo with boy bits. I think I require alcohol for that conversation. Interesting, intriguing...and such...but still...

And welcome to the fandom of Supernatural, the one show, the one fandom that has systematically destroyed and obliterated every last one of my boundaries, squicks, and "I'll never do"s.

[dragojustine.livejournal.com]

At least I'm not the only one with that happening to my squicks. Anyway, I didn't mean to inflict that on you pre-alcohol. heh. I can see how the alcohol would help.

[littlewings04.livejournal.com]

Oh, my goodness, I'm glad you liked the panel that much. Everybody seems to remember my voice, this cracks me up more than I can say. I'm totally getting Deadwood from Netflix now, you know. All because of the Calamity Jane comment. :D

I have a whole lot of notes about the panel and about John and Marine ethics and all of it that I really need to get around to posting because I lot of people really wanted me to do that, so I reckon I'll get on that tonight. This is my OCD showing because I prepared for that panel like it was a grad conference. *facepalms*

[dragojustine.livejournal.com]

>I'm totally getting Deadwood from Netflix now, you know.

My work here is done. *nod*

And you should completely post those notes, because a lot of people would be interested. Hell, if I ever get around to writing all that John stuff, I'll want to take a look at them!

[thepurpleswitch.livejournal.com]

I really kind of totally &heart; you right now. Just saying.

I think I love SPN so much because everything is allowed--every day is open season on squicks and boundaries. I mean, I really got into RPF because of Jared/Jensen, even if CWRPF is not my primary Real People fandom, so. The only time I ever feel the need to complain about SPN fandom is when people freak out about enjoying having their squicks and boundaries pushed. This is worth remarking because usually I can find a reason to complain about ANYTHING at ANY TIME.

Anyway, you're awesome for being able to type such cool thinky things coherently (also--word regarding making fannish friends. Usually I do not talk to strangers. I have pretty hefty anxiety, etc. But last weekend was like--pretty much anxiety-free, and the only person I'd ever met before was unperfectwolf, haha. So I kind of surprised myself a lot those three days. It was really freaking awesome). Possibly I will come back later and actually respond to some of your thoughts, zomg.

[dragojustine.livejournal.com]

For some reason the idea that the only person you met before was unperfectwolf kind of cracks me up. Because she is... high energy (just call me Mrs. Understatement!) and I found her kick-ass awesome and incredibly intimidating and exhausting all at the same time, and the two of you seem like an odd personality match. Heh. But yeah, I surprised myself at con too.

[marinarusalka.livejournal.com]

First of all, thank you again so much for driving me to the train station.

And second of all, you totally need to write that Jo-as-a-boy story, because it would be just brilliant.

[dragojustine.livejournal.com]

I'm so happy other people seem amused by the idea :)

[femmenerd.livejournal.com]

It makes me happy that you had such a good time at the con going in not having talked to a lot of people online or whatever. Just...that is good. It's weird, but I worried sometimes that I wasn't meeting a lot of people because I *already* knew people, you know? But then I tend to prefer to "absorb" a few people at a time, so.

I like your Jo-as-boy thing, it could be very meta. Also, I really don't think worrying about self-insertion is worth the angst. When people do creative things, they channel aspects of their life.

As for the Dean genderswap thing--I actually agree to a certain degree. When I write always-a-girl!Dean I make him the kind of girl who uses her femininity to her advantage (like for hustling stupid men at pool) when necessary. It makes sense because Dean is coded/codes HIMSELF so masculine that he might take the same tactic with femininity. The issue I have is when it's not all self-aware in genderswap and it's portrayed as though there is a BIOLOGICAL urge to buy shoes or whatever. 'Cause you know, gender = social.

P.S. The nice things you say about me are very flattering - so much so that I don't really know what to say about them. <3 And I really was not freaked out by you coming up to me that first day - I was just kind of like, "Hey, am I scary or something?"

[dragojustine.livejournal.com]

About absorbing a few people at a time- completely. I kind of oversaturated my brain at the con, you know? Or maybe, "strained my socializing muscles" is a better way of putting it. I've spent the whole week since at home, like, putting ice packs on my extrovert skills. (Dude. It makes sense to me.)

[miriad.livejournal.com]

Hey you!

What an awesome Wincon response. I love your idea of Jo-as-boy and the Jake story sounds amazing. I think you should write it and I know that there are people out there who would be willing to help you with those bits that you're not sure about. Don't let that keep you from writing something that you obviously have a passion for.

Wanted to let you know that our Supernatural get togethers are on hold until at least 11/01, as I am being sent to Atlanta by my company to help out with a new site. Plus side is serious (!!!) overtime but the downside is no hubby, no friends and no SPN gatherings. I will still be in contact and on LJ and will be making plans for 11/01 so clear your calender. :)

I'm really happy that you had such a great time and came up with all these thoughts and opinions and fic ideas. It's great when you get inspired by stuff you already love and in doing so, you find more to fill your plate.

Very cool post- I will talk to you soon!

[dragojustine.livejournal.com]

Cool, calendar clear- thanks! And good luck in Atlanta.